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Kull & Supica Live Gun Auction Problems, concerns & complaints (and how to prevent them...)
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Last updated 04/25/08. Copyright Old Town Station, Ltd.
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On this page, jump to: We do our very best to run a professional & straight forward auction that is fair & enjoyable for both bidders & consignors. We are proud that we enjoy an excellent reputation in this regard among live auctioneer firms. Ask around in the firearms community or Google us. However, with any live auction there are invariably some problems, disappointments, or misunderstandings. Often the disappointments result from absentee bidders who are unfamiliar with true live auctions, and especially from those who are only familiar with ebay style online so-called "auctions", which are very different from live auctions. Here are some of the concerns that may arise, and explanations of each situation: Hey, I bid that much! Why didn't I get it? Here are possible reasons: * TIE BIDS - It's possible that two absentee bidders bid the same amount (and bid higher than any live bidders). In that case we do our best to award the lot to the first absentee bid received. This applies to absentee bids placed through the Kull Auction online bidding, mail, and fax. Proxi-bidders bid through the live onsite Proxi-bid representative. We do not receive their "pre-bids" until the actual sale, when they are placed by the Proxi-bid rep. * THE FALL OF THE INCREMENT - Since we treat absentee bids as if the bidder was there live at the auction, trying to buy as cheaply as possible under the maximum the bidder specifies, there's always a possibility another bidder will beat them to that amount. Here's an example of how that might happen:
As you can see, this is entirely unpredictable and depends on how the live bids fall at the auction. In the example above, if live bidding had stopped at $425, we would have taken the absentee at $450, live bidder would have raised to $475, we would then take absentee bidder at $500, and the absentee bidder would buy at $500 unless the live bidder was willing to raise to $525. It is exactly what would happen if there were two live bidders in the audience who both planned to stop at $500. One would get it, and the other would not. * TO PREVENT THIS: Prevention is simple. Since we buy for you as cheaply as possible at or below the maximum you specify, simply be sure you bid the true maximum you would go to if you were bidding live. Ask yourself, "If I were there, and the bid stopped to someone else at $500, would I go $525?" If so, bid that amount. You still may fall on the bad side of the increment, but the exact same thing might happen if you were there bidding live. That's the nature of an honest auction. Hey, I bid MORE than that! Why didn't I get it NOW? Here are possible reasons: * YOU BID A WEIRD INCREMENT THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE IN A LIVE AUCTION. We warn against this in our instructions to absentee bidders, but folks do bid increments that are not acceptable in a live auction. In those cases we have to "round down" to the nearest acceptable increment. This means an absentee bid of $507.26 will be treated as a bid of $500, or an absentee bid of $10,025 will be treated as $10,000. A good and honest live auctioneer will do his best to accept reasonable bid raises, but will not sell out one bidder for a tiny raise by another. There are two reasons for this: 1. It is not fair to "sell out" a good bidder, live or absentee, for a tiny percentage raise. 2. It drags the auction out interminably which is unfair to bidders who are waiting to bid on other lots. Some auctioneers have fixed bid increments that they stick to religiously. We don't, but try to apply a general fairness standard to the bidding. We work in standard increments. For our auctions, usually a $25 raise is acceptable on the majority of lots. For a low value lot , we may sometimes accept $10 increments. For high value lots, we may require $50, $100, $250, or higher increments. In most cases, a raise in the range of 5-10% above the current bid price will be acceptable (but only in the standard type increments such as those listed above). * THE BID WAS PLACED TOO SLOW, AFTER THE HAMMER FELL TO ANOTHER BIDDER. This can happen very rarely, most notably on Proxi-bid bidders. The pace of the auction is very brisk, as we sell about 100 lots an hour. There can be a slight delay for internet bidders bidding live through Proxi-bid, and the hammer may fall between the time you decide to raise your bid and the Proxi-bid representative can raise his paddle for you. * WE JUST SCREWED UP. This is very rare but it does happen (as is the case w/ all live auctions we know). VERY rarely, an absentee bid will be recorded incorrectly on our master bid sheet (wrong lot number, zero left off, typo, etc.) OR the auctioneer may accidentally overlook the absentee bid. The latter is more common if the absentee bidder has submitted an unacceptable bid amount, since the very busy auctioneer has to do the math in his head in the heat of the auction to determine that a bid of $1,067 might be treated as a bid of $1,050 rather than stop at $1,000. In these rare instances, we always sincerely regret our error, but there is nothing that can be done. This is why we specify in the terms (that all bidders must accept in order to bid) that we are NOT responsible for failure to place a bid for any reason. * TO PREVENT THIS. The vast majority of potential auction screw-ups can be prevented if you attend the live auction, and place your own bids. If you are able to make one of our sales, I think you'll enjoy it, and you can personally be sure that you bid exactly as you wish. We are more than happy to place your absentee bid for you, and will always do our best, but are limited by your instructions & circumstances. It's always best to be there yourself if possible. Proxi-bidders can minimize the possibility of the gavel falling before their bid is placed by Pre-bidding or by bidding quickly when online during the live auction. Why wasn't I notified IMMEDIATELY? Why can't you ship my gun TODAY? * WE'RE PEDALING AS FAST AS WE CAN. Immediately after each auction, we begin notifying successful bidders, invoicing, FFL compliance, collecting payment & shipping. Please remember that at the average auction we'll have over 1,000 lots & over 1,000 bidders, and typically half or more of the lots have sold to absentee bidders. We've got experienced staff working on it full time and doing a thorough job just as fast as we can. Please remember that every phone call Kull Auction receives immediately after the sale takes a staff member away from invoicing & shipping. * WE'RE GETTING FASTER & BETTER.
* TO PREVENT THIS:
Disagreements on condition or description * LIVE AUCTIONS DO NOT HAVE RETURN PRIVILEGES. When you order a gun at a fixed price from Supica's Old Town Station or www.ArmchairGunShow.com, you are welcome to return it within the inspection period for any or not reason. This is not the case with a live auction. Our live auctions, like most others that are actual legitimate auctions, are set up to sell the listed items on a certain day to the high bidder. We always prefer to sell with no reserve, and no minimum bid. I believe we have the fewest reserves of any major firearms auctioneer in the nation. Part of the trade-off for this is that all sales are final, and never tentative dependent on buyer's inspection after the auction date. The deal is, we sell, you buy, end of story. The TERMS specify that all items are sold AS IS, WHERE IS, with no guarantee whatsoever. If push comes to shove on a disagreement over description or condition of a piece, we will indeed enforce those terms. Usually the TERMS will guarantee the accuracy of the bold face portion of the description for absentee bidders only. This means that if the gun is advertised as a Colt (in boldface) but is actually a Uberti, we will at our discretion accept its return for a refund for an absentee bidder who complies with the conditions in the terms & gives us timely notice. * That said, we enjoy an EXCELLENT REPUTATION FOR GOOD DESCRIPTIONS. The accuracy of our descriptions is important to us, and we do enjoy an excellent reputation for accurate conservative expert descriptions. We have been known to be sympathetic if an absentee bidder finds a legitimate, significant & obvious discrepancy between between the published description and the item received. If you feel such a major discrepancy and contact us promptly taking a reasonable & courteous attitude, you will receive the same consideration in return. * TO PREVENT THIS:
To contact us with questions, concerns, or complaints * First, review the explanations above. If you still have a question or concern here are the correct contacts: * CONCERNS ON BILLING, SHIPPING, FFL COMPLIANCE: Kull Auction & Real Estate Co., Inc. 785-862-8800 email Bids@KullAuction.com Please do not call Kull Auction for at least three days immediately following a live auction!
* CONCERNS OR QUESTIONS ABOUT FIREARMS DESCRIPTIONS: Old Town Station, Jim Supica or Jennifer, 913-492-3000 email Jim@ArmchairGunShow.com
* LEAVE A MESSAGE on the phone machine if you don't get through immediately. Include your question, the lot number, your name, and your phone with area code. We will get back with you as soon as possible.
We sincerely appreciate and enjoy working with our bidders and consignors!
Dan, Jim, Kurt, Kathy, Chance, Jennifer, and all the folks at Old Town Station, Ltd. and Kull Auction & Real Estate, Inc., THANK YOU for participating in our auctions, and for helping us to improve them!
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